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Thread: 458 brakes

  1. #11
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    Car is booked into Stratstone on Monday morning. I'll mention the master cylinder and ask how they bleed the brakes so thanks very much for mentioning that.

    The only really hard driving the car has had since the brake fluid was changed in March was 2 days in North Yorkshire and for every mile of fast driving, hard-ish braking, sweeping roads there were 3 miles following a caravan and losing the will to live! So I can't see that we've done anything that would degrade the brake fluid over the course of less than 1000 miles. We'll see what Stratstone have to say on Monday.

    The 'Ice Mode' info is very interesting although I don't think it's relevant to this current problem. Something we'll bear in mind going forward, however.

    We don't do trackdays but day 2 of our trip to Italy includes the Brunig, Grimsel, Furkha & Fluella passes. Day 3 is Stelvio: both directions. So you can see why I'm keen to have the brakes at their very best!

  2. #12
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    Mike01606 is offline Nowhere to put the shopping -The Ferrari F40 Club Member
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    Let us know what they find and enjoy the trip!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #13
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    F355GTS is offline Shocking waste of good kevlar - The Ferrari Enzo Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Darkside View Post
    Car is booked into Stratstone on Monday morning. I'll mention the master cylinder and ask how they bleed the brakes so thanks very much for mentioning that.

    The only really hard driving the car has had since the brake fluid was changed in March was 2 days in North Yorkshire and for every mile of fast driving, hard-ish braking, sweeping roads there were 3 miles following a caravan and losing the will to live! So I can't see that we've done anything that would degrade the brake fluid over the course of less than 1000 miles. We'll see what Stratstone have to say on Monday.

    The 'Ice Mode' info is very interesting although I don't think it's relevant to this current problem. Something we'll bear in mind going forward, however.

    We don't do trackdays but day 2 of our trip to Italy includes the Brunig, Grimsel, Furkha & Fluella passes. Day 3 is Stelvio: both directions. So you can see why I'm keen to have the brakes at their very best!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    Completely agree and I would suspect that the courts would also agree.

    If the ICE mode is what is happening and there is a crash where its proved it either a) caused the crash or b) contributed to it Ferrari will be liable under Uk law, sales of goods act etc.

    And if its something that Ferrari know about and haven't done anything about, I really would not want to be a director of that company as they could very well get measured up for little striped jump suites!!!

    If it is a know issue, then as a minimum Ferrari should be insisting that all new owners take a suitable driving course, if driving style is a mitigation to the ICE mode activating; but ultimately it should be designed out; there really is no excuse and I certainly would not sign off on anything else if I was directly involved.

    If it does happen to you, I would strongly suggest that you report all instances of it to Ferrari, in writing. There is then some evidence that they were told, if the worst comes to the worst, but off course hopefully it wont.
    It doesn’t happen a lot and only the most ham-fisted lead-footed driving can induce it. It never happens on road tests either. Imagine if someone like Chris Harris had ever had it happen on a test or a German Magazine. As far as the courts good luck with that...
    “ On February 8, 2011, the NHTSA, in collaboration with NASA, released its findings into the investigation on the Toyota drive-by-wire throttle system. After a 10-month search, NASA and NHTSA scientists found no electronic defect in Toyota vehicles. Driver error or pedal misapplication was found responsible for most of the incidents. The report ended stating, "Our conclusion is Toyota's problems were mechanical, not electrical."

    If anyone were trigging this a lot, I would suggest filming your driving from inside the car before speaking to anyone at any OEM. I have tried to unsettle both my cars at track days by driving deliberately like a cock and it is ridiculously difficult to make them misbehave.

  5. #15
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    Pleased to say that a flush through of the brake system and replacement of the brake fluid has helped greatly and the brakes are feeling much better. Discs and pads checked too but I knew they weren't the issue, they wouldn't result in a spongey pedal.

    Not so pleased to say that Stratstone had the bare faced cheek to charge for the check-over and replacement of the brake fluid despite the fact that they allegedly replaced it at service in March, since when the car has only done about 800 miles!

    Then yesterday I get a text from them reminding me that the MOT is due! Now I admit that I should have realised it wasn't far off, but given that when I rang to book it in last week they'd have brought up the details on the computer, you'd think they'd have spotted the MOT being due and offered to do it at the same time! Fortunately it can wait til we're back from Italy, but I am feeling less and less confident in Stratstone with every visit.

    Anyone got an opinion on JCT600 in Leeds? Seriously wondering whether to take it over the Pennines for its next service.

  6. #16
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    Trust me JCT 600 is worserer...

    Meanwhile my daily had a service this week.

    Having bought approved used I was pleasantly surprised to learn it had a service inclusive package until 1/10/2018 - only to have an immediate kick in the nuts that the small print said only one brake fluid change could be done in the period covered so I would have to pay. Also as the car has condition based servicing and that the car was suggesting still 1800 miles to go to service that I would have to do at least 801 miles before the end of this month to qualify for it both needing doing AND getting it ‘for free’. Typical UK customer service seemed to produce a person revelling in telling me why I couldn’t have something rather than add value and building a long term loyalty.

    Ignoring the dealership and calling the OEM directly soon triggered an e:mail effectively saying - “don’t be so silly with zee rules and just apply some common sense to the situation. Still it needed an MOT doing but their MOT guy is on holiday so my local under-the-arches grime-pit will get that business.

    And still they wonder why we don’t like dealing with the automotive sector. They sent me a survey which I filled in and a manager called me panicking that his KPI’s had turned red...

  7. #17
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    Regarding JCT, I've not used the Ferrari side of the workshop, but always found the Aston side really good.

    I've had similar discussions over on a bike forum, I've had exceptional service from my chosen dealer, other call him worse than sh*t. I always think its about building that relationship and using a common sense approach to dispute resolution.

    just IMHO of course...

  8. #18
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    A348W is online now Only useful for school runs - The Ferrari 308GT4 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    Trust me JCT 600 is worserer...

    Meanwhile my daily had a service this week.

    Having bought approved used I was pleasantly surprised to learn it had a service inclusive package until 1/10/2018 - only to have an immediate kick in the nuts that the small print said only one brake fluid change could be done in the period covered so I would have to pay. Also as the car has condition based servicing and that the car was suggesting still 1800 miles to go to service that I would have to do at least 801 miles before the end of this month to qualify for it both needing doing AND getting it ‘for free’. Typical UK customer service seemed to produce a person revelling in telling me why I couldn’t have something rather than add value and building a long term loyalty.

    Ignoring the dealership and calling the OEM directly soon triggered an e:mail effectively saying - “don’t be so silly with zee rules and just apply some common sense to the situation. Still it needed an MOT doing but their MOT guy is on holiday so my local under-the-arches grime-pit will get that business.

    And still they wonder why we don’t like dealing with the automotive sector. They sent me a survey which I filled in and a manager called me panicking that his KPI’s had turned red...
    Sounds like my experience with a particular bmw dealer in Swindon. They soon start jumping around when you slate them on their KPIs! (I now do my own servicing as it now past the point of adding/retaining any value in the car; and to be honest its so easy. Longest part is watching a youtube video of how/where etc.)

    Miss Darkside...glad to hear your sorted...enjoy your trip

  9. #19
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    Well, we're back from Italy more or less intact. Stelvio, Grimsel, Furkha etc. were interesting without servo'd brakes

    Yes, as has been suggested on this thread the issue is - has to be - with the master cylinder. By the time we reached Switzerland it was clear that Stratstone had actually done nothing worthwhile to improve the brakes. The brakes were ok if you gave the car plenty of revs and built up a vacuum but that quickly dissipated. I suspect the seals are the issue, either flipped as has been suggested here or they have atrophied due to lack of use prior to our ownership of the car.

    We enjoyed the trip anyway and Stratstone are collecting the car AGAIN on Tuesday to sort the issue once and for all, we hope! If not we'll take it to a competitor and make sure everyone everywhere knows how useless they are.

    Doubled the car's mileage in one trip. Can't recommend European Driving Tours enough - fantastically planned and organised tour.

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Darkside View Post
    Well, we're back from Italy more or less intact. Stelvio, Grimsel, Furkha etc. were interesting without servo'd brakes

    Yes, as has been suggested on this thread the issue is - has to be - with the master cylinder. By the time we reached Switzerland it was clear that Stratstone had actually done nothing worthwhile to improve the brakes. The brakes were ok if you gave the car plenty of revs and built up a vacuum but that quickly dissipated. I suspect the seals are the issue, either flipped as has been suggested here or they have atrophied due to lack of use prior to our ownership of the car.

    We enjoyed the trip anyway and Stratstone are collecting the car AGAIN on Tuesday to sort the issue once and for all, we hope! If not we'll take it to a competitor and make sure everyone everywhere knows how useless they are.

    Doubled the car's mileage in one trip. Can't recommend European Driving Tours enough - fantastically planned and organised tour.

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    Given thew symptoms you suggest I doubt the seals that have been referred to, these are on the fluid side of the system and the symptoms would be increased pedal travel or no brakes at all . It could be something as simple as a blocked or leaking servo pipe, failed check valve or faulty/ leaking servo unit. Given you suggest it gets a bit better if the engine is revved to build up pressure I'd suspect a blockage/leak or faulty servo rather than check valve.

    Does the car idle OK, often a vacuum leak will induce a rough/ unsteady idle?

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