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Thread: My Argento 360

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike01606 View Post
    I hadn’t actually checked the part number as I picked it up and fitted it immediately on Friday evening after work.
    If you look at the earlier picture I’ve fitted part no. 237531 which possibly explains why it I went in easier than most seem to have done using the others.
    Stratstones said that is the one they normally supply so I’ll confirm in the morning when I order some more parts which one they use in the workshop.
    The diamond prevents the bush from collapsing but will also be less compliant as there is less rubber so I’ll see if it drives any different and may change it. I’m positive this one will come straight out as I would judge i didn’t have to go above 120 Nm installing it.

    If you remember I fitted 360CS engine mounts and initially the NVH was increased but this settled down as the miles went on.....I’m still considering if I should swap these out this time though. Call me soft
    I think that's probably right, Mike; having looked into this further Ferrari no longer produce 186698, and upon stock exhaustion they supplied the remnants of challenge specific stock (220338) to a few unlucky customers, and that stock was exhausted hence the Scuderia part is now supplied for all models.

    If you really want 186698 then Eurospares still hold stock.

    All bushes fit all cars. Some may protrude outside of the casing a little bit buy that shouldn't affect fitment.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWStewart View Post
    I think that's probably right, Mike; having looked into this further Ferrari no longer produce 186698, and upon stock exhaustion they supplied the remnants of challenge specific stock (220338) to a few unlucky customers, and that stock was exhausted hence the Scuderia part is now supplied for all models.

    If you really want 186698 then Eurospares still hold stock.

    All bushes fit all cars. Some may protrude outside of the casing a little bit buy that shouldn't affect fitment.
    When I sourced my parts for engine mounting I couldn’t get any straight answer regarding the re-design of the part. The design logic of the 360 challenge / 360 CS upgrade vs. The later 430 challenge / Scud / 16m part (if fitted as intended) significantly limits vertical movement via the central boss’ diamond shape whilst at the same time this bush increases available fore-aft compliance (the rubber being now being cast with ‘drilled’ holes). This is a paradox to me as it would- being effectively the rear powertrain mount- possibly make the 430 exhaust problem even worse than it already is. This whole area of the design is not coherent so I could be simply seeing various members of the design team trying to solve their own isolated issues and unwittingly producing some conflicts. The only known is that the Scud / challenge cars all carry significantly less exhaust weight weight and ancillaries in this area.

    A Mystery that only deepens...

    This is the superformance listing
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    It seems there is a cut-n-paste error here as the middle item is actually the upgrade they supply for all 360/430 tipo - the upper part is the factory initial stock one which seemingly suffered a shorter than planned life (hence stocks running low) and the lower part is, as Mark says, the factory 430 upgraded item. It seems stick levels alone are what is leading to 360’s being fitted with this part.

    Seeing as powertrain mounting has, for me been a Ferrari weakness over the years, I made a conscious decision not to have the factory ‘upgraded’ part and asked superformance to send me their upgraded item which is what they recommend for all tipo despite the seemingly inadvertent misleading listing above.

    I don’t like the load scenarios on this part of the gearbox at all especially with the casting risers being there but I am not aware of a signifanct failure issue here other than some fitting / removing nightmare stories.
    Last edited by Modificato; 14-01-2018 at 02:26 PM.

  3. #83
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    Also, I forgot to mention that the diamond is not installed vertically, but at a slight angle (clockwise).

  4. #84
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    Mike01606 is offline Looks like a 308 to me? -The Ferrari 288 GTO Club Member
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    This is the page out of the 430 manual that Stratstoneís printed for me Mark.

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    It says fit the metal element with the fastener hole vertically.


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  5. #85
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    That also shows the angle - there's an alignment notch for the bush at the top of the gearbox casting, which is slightly off-centre, so when looking at an installed bush it is not actually vertical.

    I don't suppose it matters a great deal.

  6. #86
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    That tool in the manual is not the same as the now three I have now seen!

    I am told that much of Ferrariís technical documentation is pretty poor and that manual looks like some ancient Haynes thing - all its missing are the greasy un-gloved hand and brown dust coat!

    Probably due an overhaul but I suspect itís not any kind of priority and they cut and paste anything that hasnít changed.

  7. #87
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    achaddy is offline Rear lights like a farm gate - The Ferrari 348 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike01606 View Post
    Cheers Andy....

    Do you remember if they were metal washers or a thicker rubber spacer with a washer moulder into it and a recess on the bush side.
    They changed at ass no. 40522.

    Mine is earlier than that (38XXX) and has the rubber version.

    I think I may have lit that cigar too early!...LOL

    M
    All metal washer


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by achaddy View Post
    All metal washer


    I'll speak to Stratstones tomorrow and order the washers......

    I suspect the Superperformance bushes are a lot tighter fit into the casting that the one I fitted.

  9. #89
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    No reason at all to suspect that - they have been made using OE part dimensions and on inspection using superior processes. The surface finish is far better on the Superformance supplied part. The only thing that determines how easy or hard it is, are the geometric tolerancing and manufacturing inconsistencies of the respective parts being assembled. The best / worse case scenarios were posted in the data table in my earlier post.

  10. #90
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    Mike01606 is offline Looks like a 308 to me? -The Ferrari 288 GTO Club Member
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    Clutch off tonight as the HE alignment tool arrived.
    Great service again from Hill Eng and £35 ainít bad [emoji106]

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    Ring gear off.
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    Pressure plate and friction disc off
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    Iíve marked all the relative positions and where each bolt came from. Not necessary on the bolts but works for me ;)

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    Iím not an expert at all here as all the clutches Iíve changed have been totally gone.

    The pressure plate looks like this.

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    Thereís 3 slightly worn patches 120 degrees apart inline with the clamp points, otherwise you can see the machine marks.

    The friction disc looks like this...

    Outside face
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    Inside face
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    Using a gear micrometer for a bigger surface area it is around 7.7mm thick on the outer edge and up to 8.2mm towards the inner.
    The flywheel is dished with 0.7mm so it seems to me to be just bedded in.

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    New is 8.3mm +/- 0.3mm
    Wear limit is 0.8mm.
    TCU says ~30-35% and Iíll go with that.

    Itís going straight back even though Iíve a new clutch waiting. That can wait a few k miles in the secret stash ;)

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