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Thread: When does an 'un-orginal' car become original?

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    Default When does an 'un-orginal' car become original?

    Just reading about Jon Von Neumans Testarossa 'hot rod' and the 250gto 'breadvan' and wondering out loud why these cars are celebrated in their own right when Novitec and other such modified cars are not.

    What makes a 'special' welcomed into the Ferrari fold and another treated like a three fingered ginger step child?

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    One word - taste

    I suppose the two examples you've given were modified solely to win races, without a thought given to what anyone else thinks or style, whereas the modern-day Novitec etc stuff is styled to look like a race car, but is all for show - so lack authenticity. Are they that far removed from the Halfords Nova special?

    Mods for performance reasons are fine in my book - what you and Mark have done to your F430s are fantastic; I've got a heavily modded JCW Mini myself. But the Novitec stuff is not for performance - there's no way people need that much downforce when they're too busy trying to keep the mileage down

    Is it the 'look at me' generation's demand for attention, to stand out?

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    sssdu01 is offline I mince along like a girl Club Member
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    I think it relates to why they were modified along with what race series they did/who drove it/how successful they were. e.g if Stirling Moss had specified a wooden spoon handle as his gearlever then raced the car - it would be a "fabulous genuine period mod" and make the car worth thousands more.

    If Chavy Dave from the estate has fitted a body kit or changed the wheels, the car becomes an almost unsaleable heap of crap on wheels. I recon that whatever much you spend on modifying a Ferrari devalues the car by at least twice what you have spent on the mods

    In my opinion anyone who has modified a "modern" road car Ferrari, has devalued it or made it more difficult to sell. People seem to just want a car in the same condition as it came off the production line, so if you want certain brakes/seats/trim/etc then buy the car that had all these bits fitted from new.

    I have a full Capristo exhaust system on my car and when I come to sell it, the original exhaust will be going back on the car complete with the crappy factory rear mounts making the car 100% factory genuine............ and worth a bit more, and I can sell the better exhaust onto someone else

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssdu01 View Post
    I think it relates to why they were modified along with what race series they did/who drove it/how successful they were. e.g if Stirling Moss had specified a wooden spoon handle as his gearlever then raced the car - it would be a "fabulous genuine period mod" and make the car worth thousands more.

    If Chavy Dave from the estate has fitted a body kit or changed the wheels, the car becomes an almost unsaleable heap of crap on wheels. I recon that whatever much you spend on modifying a Ferrari devalues the car by at least twice what you have spent on the mods

    In my opinion anyone who has modified a "modern" road car Ferrari, has devalued it or made it more difficult to sell. People seem to just want a car in the same condition as it came off the production line, so if you want certain brakes/seats/trim/etc then buy the car that had all these bits fitted from new.

    I have a full Capristo exhaust system on my car and when I come to sell it, the original exhaust will be going back on the car complete with the crappy factory rear mounts making the car 100% factory genuine............ and worth a bit more, and I can sell the better exhaust onto someone else
    +1

    You won't increase the value of a 'normal' Ferrari by upgrading it even if that does improve performance. As the car tips into the realms of being a classic you'll hurt the value even more. My car was 100% original when I got her and everything that's been swapped out for 'better' parts has been kept, right down to the black plastic door locks which are silver metal now on my car. Right or wrong that's just the way the Ferrari market is.

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    What do you all think about the Konig cars, performance and body mods. Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PACROCK View Post
    What do you all think about the Konig cars, performance and body mods. Thoughts?
    The performance mods they do - good if that's your thing. The body mods they do - to be honest, to me, they generally make the Ferrari base car look like a kit car. I guess it is if you put a kit on it but you know what I mean.

    And they definitely kill the value to most people.

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    I had a look at the Koenig 512BB at the FOC 50th do at Knockhill and it wasn't to my tastes. The performance mods I'm sure are impressive, but I wasn't keen on the aesthetics. Neither was the 308 masquerading as a 288GTO.

    It's relatively easy to improve the performance; less so to improve the appearance IMO. Much more care and detail required, which is why OEM+ are generally the cosmetic improvements favoured by most

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    The performance mods they do - good if that's your thing. The body mods they do - to be honest, to me, they generally make the Ferrari base car look like a kit car. I guess it is if you put a kit on it but you know what I mean.

    And they definitely kill the value to most people.
    I quite like the Konig 348, the yellow one looks great. I was tempted before I bought my 348TS, there was a red one for sale at that time. I think I did the right thing though by buying the standard 348, still miss that car!

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    I tend to think that Ferrari know best and get it right when it comes out of the factory.

    Novitec don't just do body stuff, they fit superchargers etc to get more performance. All very clever but Ferrari could do the same themselves if they felt it was needed so why bother.

    Alan Sayers' Koenig 512 is quite a beast and though not to my taste it is pretty striking.

    The Breadvan was an development improvement on the SWB to compete with the GTO which Enzo wouldn't sell to Count Volpi. It was put together by ex Ferrari engineers who had worked on the GTO and that Enzo had recently sacked. It was built to win races and did. I think it is in a completely different category which Ferrari have recognised by giving it a Classiche white (?) book (which I think was started to recognise such historic cars). It was therefore a logical development project by guys who had worked for Ferrari and was relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PACROCK View Post
    I quite like the Konig 348, the yellow one looks great. I was tempted before I bought my 348TS, there was a red one for sale at that time. I think I did the right thing though by buying the standard 348, still miss that car!
    I just think it's trying too hard to be an F40 - they even call it an F48 - but it just isn't one. Ferrari did a twin turbo 348 themselves, in house it was called the 348 Speciale (ring any bells?) but the project never got further than that. I just think the F48 is a good example of taking it a bit too far, a bit like Boxers with really wide wheel arches - just too over done. Performance wise though I think they do a good job.

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